President Obama's Fort Hood memorial speech: "No faith justifies these murderous and craven acts"

Did you miss the word 'due process' in there? Duh.

Kim-298921 - You could make your point without 'flaming' me. You wouldn't say it face-to-face.

My point was that the President is speaking about one singular person. That person has not even been charged. The Pres leads one to the conclusion that the 'suspect' is the guilty party and will pay for his crimes. Due process includes finding an impartial jury, and the President's comments just shortened that list, it seems to me.

No, it doesn't. Or else just CHARGING someone with a crime would preclude finding an impartial jury.

I hope you're correct. My nightmare is to see the guilty party (whomever that might be) get off on a technical error (or Executive mis-speak).

Kim-298921 - You could make your point without 'flaming' me. You wouldn't say it face-to-face.

Yes, I would. Your wild accusation - IN ALL CAPS NO LESS - was absurd.

The idea that the President making a comment about the justice system - note he didn't say the retribution system - working and justice being served here in no way poisons a jury pool. He did not even identify the gunman by name.

Finally, Maj. Nidal Hassan will be tried in military court, because his crime was a terrorist attack on a military base.

blkdwg...being as the shooter was military and killed soldiers on a military base wouldn't he be tried in a military court???

Yes. But the court-martial process still follows the jury selection process. I was successfully challenged (peremptory challenges) on several occasions based upon positions I had held that were felt to predispose me to convict (or acquit).

Court martial "juries" consist of three staff officers that also preside over the course of the trial do they not?

I thought the US was explicitly pluralistic, not secular.

"It should have been a secular memorial service since it was a military service on a military post in a secular nation."

American Spirit,

Yes that's what most American families grieving for their loved ones who were killed this way want at such a time as this. Something secular.

As opposed to that which will comfort them in their faith and their loss. Comforting reassurance that they will see their departed loved ones again and that the perpetrator will not escape justice in this life or the next. Can't you respect that?

You may not believe it. But hundreds of millions of your fellow Americans do.

Can't you respect that?

They'll have individual funerals, counseling, friends and personal clergy and many many many grieving hours to come for that. A memorial service to honor their service had no need for references to Christianity on a military post.

Did you see a televised service and the flags at half-staff for the eight soldiers and three wounded who were shot by the other servicemember while stationed in Iraq?

Me neither. This one was treated totally differently because the guy going postal was Muslim. The service they held today proved they refuse to learn anything from this event at all....

You may not believe it. But hundreds of millions of your fellow Americans do.

No I don't believe anything after afterlife. I know. It's very logical too. if you ever need factual information about it, let me know. There's little knowledge of it to be found in religious textbooks from long long ago. They have indeed impeded learning more.

That should have read five soldiers killed in a shooting by a fellow soldier instead of eight...

A memorial service to honor their service had no need for references to Christianity on a military post.

American Spirit,

So your beef is with Christianity? Do you realize that the totally Atheist desire to do away with all public mention of Christianity in America will never be realized?

This one was treated totally differently because the guy going postal was Muslim.

Why would President Barack Obama who has been criticized for being pro Muslim and pro tolerance do that?

if you ever need factual information about it, let me know. There's little knowledge of it to be found in religious textbooks from long long ago.

Thank you for the offer. But I have placed my confidence in the only true expert on this subject, Jesus Christ who was resurrected from the dead.

American Spirit,

I'm Secular Humanist (which is a shiny feel good way of saying atheist). I didn't watch the ceremony (i don't have tv) I dont know the religion of all the fallen soldiers but if they were all of a judeo-christian tradition then i have absolutely no problem with a bible verse being quoted. Theyre all goign to be buried on public ground with crosses to mark thier graves too. the memorial was not for you, it was for the families and survivors of Fort Hood and i havent heard of any of them complaining. Get over yourself, and have some respect for those who died protecting your rights.

So your beef is with Christianity.

No my beef is with folks not following our Constitution and keeping specific beliefs out of military ceremonies.

have some respect for those who died protecting your rights.

Militaries protect our borders, not our rights. There are nations with superb militaries with few freedoms within. Our rights are protected by activists and the ACLU.

I dont know the religion of all the fallen soldiers but if they were all of a judeo-christian tradition

Last I saw a statistic, at least 25% of our soldiers are not Christian. Perhaps you should read up on stories from atheists and non-minority soldiers of their persecution for not being Christian in our military in the last few years.

No my beef is with folks not following our Constitution and keeping specific beliefs out of military ceremonies.

What part of the Constititution prohibits specific beliefs in military ceremonies? I could find no such reference.

It should have been a secular memorial service since it was a military service on a military post in a secular nation.

Yes that's what most American families grieving for their loved ones who were killed this way want at such a time as this. Something secular.

Imho, an honest and heartfelt memorial falls under free speech, not the church-state separation. If the greatest honor and respect a person can express for a fallen hero requires invoking their faith, then let that person express that honor and respect freely. If one were to offer a Christian prayer over my grave, I think it goes without saying that they are not trying to convert me or violate my free will at that point. They are, however, expressing an honest love, and I would truly hope that none would criticize or prevent a person from such an honest and caring act. My only preference would be that a Christian sentiment (or any other sentiment, for that matter) be expressed because it is appropriate, not because it is Christian.

From my heart I pray that these fine warriors are brought to the gates of Valhalla on flaming chariots to the sounds trumpets and cheers of victory. To the Christian families of these heroes, may they be quickly and triumphantly lifted to the gates of heaven for having shown Christian love perfected (John 15:13).

Peaceful regards

'Comrades' may seem like a strange choice, but in the military it is a common term when referring to fellow soldiers, airman, sailors and Marines (comrades in arms).

You stole his thunder. Now he can't slam obama without slamming the military.

darn.

I think that young Marine and all of his comrades have given every one of us something to live up to.

comrades in the above sense is referring to all the troops in the military...

Theirs are the tales of American men and women answering an extraordinary call -- the call to serve their comrades, their communities, and their country.

comrades in this sense is referring to all the american civilian population not just the troops...

there is a difference in the usage of the word...

i thought he belonged to chicago church of christ that was pastored by jeremiah wright???

No, he and his staff are being counseled by Ted Haggard on a weekly bases.

Oh wait, that was the Bush administration.

Sorry, my bad.

Who cares when/if he joins a church? What difference does that make AT ALL?

Nice words from a the first President who does not profess the Christian faith and does not seek its maintenance to the punishment of wickedness and vice. He has yet to join a Christian congregation.

Even if this were true, which it isn't, why does that matter?

Our president is a great patriot who is gonna turn one of the finest presidents in history, he is irritating the right rednecks because he is making a difference and actually getting things done

Of coarse he's a great patriot, him and his wife by golly. Anybody out there can just look back and see all the patriotic things he's done like... well there's her.... and then there's... well anyway, Good job FH way to keep the faith. History making yes, like you think I don't think so.

Hey! Stop it! Michelle Obama has been proud of her country for about a full year now. Her pride is her patriotism. I don't know if Barack Hussein Obama has converted to pride in America yet.

We can only hope?

Randy - thanks for the link to an excellent article...well sourced and factual.

Obama didn't deny the use of the tea-bagger term.

Barack Obama has not lowered my taxes. He has raised my alcohol and tobacco taxes. He is taking away my lower Bush taxes.

Reagan's Democrat Congress tripled the deficit.

Medicare sucks, wastes billions, and is an administrative nightmare, plus it is bankrupt.

We don't know for sure what relgion Obama is, just that he is its deity.

The stimulus is working to increase unemployment, budget deficits and national debt.

Looking at your lessons, you must be a teacher in one of those failed government schools.

DonkeyRidder
Obama didn't deny the use of the tea-bagger term.

id anyone ask him? Anyway, the guy who started the rumor said He didn't. Just because you want to make it an issue doesn't make it any less bull@!$%#.

Barack Obama has not lowered my taxes. He has raised my alcohol and tobacco taxes. He is taking away my lower Bush taxes.

You sound like a real together guy. If you pay more in the taxes from alcohol and tobacco than you did with your income tax cut, then you should probably seek counseling instead of crying for optional negative impact products.

Reagan's Democrat Congress tripled the deficit.

Oh so the buck stop here only applies to Obama,huh? The president is the largest force responsible for the economy, controls the fed government spending. He has the ultimate say with the veto pen. Thats why they call it the Reaganomics, not Tip O'neillonomics.

Besides ,you are wrong. The Senate was controlled mostly by republicans, Meaning for the first 7 years you had the executive and congress which means you controlled the gov't therefore YOU tripled the debt.

Medicare sucks, wastes billions, and is an administrative nightmare, plus it is bankrupt.

Medicare is surpassed only by single payer VA in customer satisfaction, the private market lagging by the 2. Medicare's overhead is 3%, compared with most private insurers around 30%, who cry poverty yet have half a trillion to wash over washington to kill reform. That would bre the guys you are flacking for. Perhaps if idiots didn't put unfunded mandates like Bushs' 17.5 trillion dollar big pharma welfare and yu hadn't tripled then later doubled the debt, we'd be payign for those who have been paying for it all their lives. Perhaps if Republicans didn't try bankrupting schemes like starve the beast we' would be in better shape.

We don't know for sure what relgion Obama is, just that he is its deity.

So Militant Black Christian/Muslim with him as the Messiah as republics empower Him with. Your memes are tripping over themselves.

The stimulus is working to increase unemployment, budget deficits and national debt.

Wrong. He inherited 700,000 jobs lost a month, he cut that down by 2/3rds. If He choose your Hooverian wishes ,we'd be at 30% unemployment by now. The Economy grew 3.5%, the biggest increase in 2 years, After 5 quarters of negaive growth under Bush. Stock market rebounding ,401k regaining their ground lost under Bush, Housing starts and real value increasing.

Looking at your lessons, you must be a teacher in one of those failed government schools.

and judging by your breathtaking ignorance and white hot hatred of our President, it looks you are happy to relegate yourselves to the minority, as you had in the last 100 years.

Don't worry, you will have the full majority once again. You just might not be alive when you do.

If you pay more in the taxes from alcohol and tobacco than you did with your income tax cut, then you should probably seek counseling instead of crying for optional negative impact products.

You employed the old "change the subject from my dishonesty" trick. You were dishonest about Oblahblah raising taxes. Obama has raised taxes and he's going to raise them again next year.

Obama, Reid and Pelosi have created more deficit spending than any other President or Congress in the history of the world. They have spent more money than all other Presidents and Congresses. And they are the most corrupt government in the history of America.

Don't worry, you will have the full majority once again. You just might not be alive when you do.

Since we'll have the full Congress in 2011, and the full government in 2013, you are suggesting I'm to die soon. The wording of your comment makes it seem you are going to kill me, that you are threatening my life. It isn't really unexpected since you are losing the debate and your dishonesty has been exposed and you are a liberal. Don't worry, I didn't turn you in for making threats against my life. You are probably a minority and it would be me that gets in trouble, like people were concerned about when it was their time to deal with Major Dr. Hasan.

Why is the response from the right always "it's GOING to happen". Non-stop baseless fear mongering just like during the Presidential campaign. Running around like chickens with their heads cut off, scared of the boogey-man. Why don't you preemptively move to Canada already.

Predicting the future takes skill and thought to get it right. The left is stuck on trying to predict the past.

The problem with your suggestion is, you would have the ACLU, CAIR, AMANA and a whole bunch of liberal lawyers going after the groups or people that go after the mosques.

There is no doubt that "many" muslims may have no bad intentions, but it seems every day the list is getting shorter and shorter. What needs to be done is the muslimsthemselves need to stop there own from doing this. Tell their people this is wrong and you won't get 17 virgins if you do this. People are losing respect for muslims and it's only going to get worse if this type of terrorism continues.

Aren't there any conservative lawyers out there? Aren't there any AMERICAN lawyers out there, there has to be!! Why not get the ACLU to sue for the families of the terrorist attack at Ft. Hood, that is right up their alley, you'd be surprised that they do take on some cases that you would associate with them.

Remember, not all muslims are terrorists, but so far since 9/11 all terrorists have been muslim!

but so far since 9/11 all terrorists have been muslim

Sure. It has nothing to do with the fact that that's the religion of the people who live above the region with all the oil. It's always been a geographical war with the people in the area we keep interferring in at the cost of innocent lives but keep insisting otherwise if you wish.

I apologize Carloz for the personal attack on that post.

The president is fake. It took him over three minutes of jokes and "shout outs" the other day at the Indian Reservation to even acknowledge that a "man made disaster" (because he can't even say the word terrorism for some reason) occured at Ft. Hood. He is a joke, how come nobody is commenting on how Bush secretly went to Ft. Hood 2 days before the current president to comfort the troops and their families? What about the photo-op in Deleware? He is a fraud, I'm not the biggest Bush fan, but he went to view the caskets and met with the families the majority of the time without the press corps, you know why, because he honestly cared. How about his wife (who up until recently was never proud of this country....remember that???). This dislike has nothing to do with any racial issues, it has to do with the fact he has never held a real job, he is smug, arrogant, dishonest , and he feels that he knows how to spend my money better than I can. I want what is mine so I can take care of me and my own, that is the principle that the neo-comms (neo-communists) will never get.... save yourself, screw the world! Go ahead and censor me, that is one of the neo-comms strongist skills!

I'm going to apologize ahead of time for this one! , I know you won't like it, but hey what use is the Freedom of speach if you don't use it??

I'm going to apologize ahead of time for this one! , I know you won't like it, but hey what use is the Freedom of speach if you don't use it??

Just FYI: The First Amendment does not apply to Newsvine commentary, since Newsvine is a privately held company.

thanks Jack, are you a lawyer?

No, I just know the basics of how the Constitution works.

Heyy Jack, I was being facetious. I know Carloz will kill this conversation, since it is off topic, but I bet you are judicial activism type of guy who favors Federal Powers over State's Rights. Am I correct?

Heyy Jack, I was being facetious.

Ah, that explains the surprising rhetorical cogency.

I bet you are judicial activism type of guy who favors Federal Powers over State's Rights. Am I correct?

If by that, you mean that I understand the constitutional powers of the federal vs the state pretty well, then sure, you can put into phraseology that's as self-righteously loaded and as arbitrarily capitalized as you like.

I do understand the powers of the Supreme Court, and don't b---- about "judicial activism" when one leg of the federal trinity of checks and balances disagrees with my personal proclivities. If that qualifies as being a "judicial activism type of guy" in your little world, then whatever.

You should be a politician, is your name really Nancy Pelosi? You can't answer a question. Blah, blah, blah, that is all that comes out of you, when you don't want to interject your rhetoric in your answer let me know. And from that answer you don't know "Jack" about Federal Powers. Are you in favor of Roe vs Wade? Think you can answer that without including too much hot air???

Thanks Carloz! Sorry to bother you for a second straight day!!! Jack/Nancy, no need to email me, I already know! Adios y buenos noches

Of course Christianity ALSO teaches there are principles worth dying for.

What does a man profit, who salvages his life at the expense of his soul?

Early Christians routinely chose death to denying their faith in public.

As far as justiying murder based on faith, church going Christians are no doubt the world record holders in the sectarian death department.

let's see now:

13 murderous crusades to conquer the holy land.

The Inquistion.

Endless wars between Catholics and Protestants in Europe.

Modern Ireland.

The Holecaust

America's wars agains't "Godless Communism" in South East Asia.

Let's just say that historically most wars have been justified by differences in religious belief on all sides. It's the God and country deal over and over again, because religion is an easily exploitable form of ignorant stupidity. Once you are willing to believe in some invisible boggie man in the sky, you have demonstrated your willingness to believe ANYTHING you are told and the rest is easy.

I agree, the president felt the need to jump to conclusions and call the Cambridge Police stupid (he's never apologized...one of the reasons I feel he is smug and arrogant), but doesn't want to step on any muslim toes and call this TERRORISM?? I guess he figures he can't sweep that under the table with a beer in the rose garden...... because TERRORISTS don't drink alcohol..... they only kill people and then commit suicide!

Are you serious, you have no credibility now!! How can you defend that he said they acted stupidly?? He spoke based on feelings, and was wrong, flat out, the cop did nothing wrong, if he had, do you think he would still be on the job today???? He should have apologized, if he had I would give him a little respect, but now I have zero respect for the man. To defend him means you have no credibility and everything you say from here on might as well be: Blah Blah Blah. Censor that Bro.

How can you defend that he said they acted stupidly?? ... the cop did nothing wrong,

Except for manhandling a guy trying to get into his own house? Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that -- it's simply SOP.

if he had, do you think he would still be on the job today?

Yes. Plenty of cops get a slap on the wrist for doing something wrong.

everything you say from here on might as well be: Blah Blah Blah.

Mmm, you would know. ;-)

Censor that Bro.

You'll find that it's far more effective to simply let idiots hang themselves on their own words than to try to quash their commentary.

Except for manhandling a guy trying to get into his own house? Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that -- it's simply SOP.

So Jack, I take you were there and saw them "manhandling" him. And for the record he was already in the house and they were trying to verify he was who he said he was. I wish they tasered him.

Yes. Plenty of cops get a slap on the wrist for doing something wrong.

You new-comms are all the same, you twist reality to fit your liking, sorry buddy, but facts are facts no matter how much you try to skew them. Give some examples of these slaps on the wrist, please, stop arguing with your feelings, and give facts please! If you show respect to the police they will respect you, you get all uppity on them and they'll take you down town, simple as that! Skip got uppity, and got what he had coming to him!

You neo-comms are all the same!! You all need to grow up and face reality!

Does the same go for Jack? he did call me an idiot

Carloz, you don't have to answer that and I'll stop commenting on you seed. Thank you for allowing me to post and express my opinions, even if they were off topic. I was just looking to argue and jack and american spirit took me up. Take it easy and look forward to arguing/conversing with you in the future, be safe and God bless ya!

You probably believe they use Gitmo as a recruting tool, and if we shut it down everything will be ok!! Nonsense, shutting it down and even worse bringing the terrorists (can I still say that word, or is now hate speach?) to the US homeland will just give them a target on our soil! Keep Gitmo open, hopefully after we elect some real civil-servants in office, many of our polictical elite can take a nice vacation and spend the rest of their lives in Gitmo, having to listen to the Star Spangled Banner 24/7!!!

yes, I was thinking the same thing. No great Obama fan here, but I think that needs to be put aside at times like the memorial.