Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit Carloz's column >>

CARLOZ

Home Page
Welcome / Bienvenido
Articles Posted: 508  Links Seeded: 8141
Member Since: 8/2008  Last Seen: 5/17/2012

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Sarah Palin, we already have 'death panels' - if you can't pay the bill, you're sent home to die.

Seeded on Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:43 PM EDT
Read ArticleArticle Source: Crooks and Liars
politics, obama, health-care, sarah-palin, health-care-reform, health-insurance, right-wing-lies, death-panels
Seeded by Carloz
Advertise | AdChoices

Don’t talk to me about death panels, Sarah Palin.

You, who so carelessly bolstered a lie about healthcare reform to score a cheap political point; you, the most craven of political opportunists, who fearmongers about some dystopian socialist/fascist fantasyland; you, who earlier this year were only too happy to accept free medical, dental and veterinary care from the U.S. military for Alaska’s remote villages; you, dear lady, are an idiot.

Here's a link to the original article:

Don’t talk to me about death panels

You have no idea what it’s like to be called into a sterile conference room with a hospital administrator you’ve never met before and be told that your mother’s insurance policy will only pay for 30 days in ICU. You can't imagine what it's like to be advised that you need to “make some decisions,” like whether your mother should be released “HTD” which is hospital parlance for “home to die,” or if you want to pay out of pocket to keep her in the ICU another week. And when you ask how much that would cost you are given a number so impossibly large that you realize there really are no decisions to make. The decision has been made for you. "Living will" or no, it doesn't matter. The bank account and the insurance policy have trumped any legal document.

If this isn’t a “death panel” I don’t know what is.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Published to:

  • Carloz's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: cheapdirtystuntsbyGOPfascists, Corporate Watchdogs, Das Krapital, DemGuys, Democrats, Enraged, GOP Watch , Grounded for Life, Gut Check America, Health Care Policy, HealthVine, Heated Debate, Left of Center, Liberal Libertarians, Libertarians, Naked Debate , ObamaExpress, ObamaVine, PalinVine, Pants-Down Spanking, Politics in USA, RantVine, Social Workers, The Vine 12 Step, US News and Views , Video & Music Links
  • Regions: Nashville
  • Public Discussion (80)
Carloz

So don’t talk to me about “death panels” you heartless, cruel, greedy sons of bitches, who are only too happy to keep the profits rolling in to the big insurance companies while you spout your mealy-mouthed bumper sticker slogans about the evils of socialism. You don't even know what socialism is. You don't know what government healthcare is. You have no @!$%#ing clue about anything except that you lost the last election and you're pissed off.

An appropriate rant in reponse to Palin's outrageous lies, IMO.

  • 48 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT
teresa-498430

Hi Carloz, I read this earlier and think it has a pretty powerful message. It is one that I would have thought most Americans were aware of. My mom was hospitalized and had medicare and a supplemental policy. They allowed 5 days hospitalization for her particular problem. After 5 days she spiked a temp and was not doing very well and needed supplemental O2 during this period. Her 5 days were up and there were no buts she had to leave the hospital. My dad worked with the HR and hospital Administrators to extend her stay. The answer was a big fat no. Even though he volunteered to pay for 2 or 3 days up front that was not an option. Get O2 at home and take care of her yourself or send her to the nursing home. She went home because my sister is a RN and could care for her. Within 24 hours she was taken back to the hospital in an ambulance with a raging infection and a collapsed lung, ICU and floor time for 7 days. She got better but at the time old Ma thought they sent her home to die. These things happen all the time it is not an unusual case. My problem is this:

Do people just pretend this doesn't happen or do they forget because remembering is too painful. Come on folks be honest about the problems now. don't use the problems as a blueprint to manufacture a new scary lie.

From factcheck.org;

Many of the e-mails cite former Republican lieutenant governor of New York Betsy McCaughey’s interview on former senator and Republican presidential candidate Fred Thompson’s radio show. On July 16, McCaughey, who founded a group called the Committee to Reduce Infection Deaths in 2004, appearedon Thompson’s program to discuss health care. Citing page 425 of the bill, McCaughey claimed that “the Congress would make it mandatory … that every five years, people in Medicare have a required counseling session that will tell them how to end their life sooner, how to decline nutrition, how to decline being hydrated, how to go into hospice care … all to do what’s in society’s best interest … and cut your life short.” Thompson chuckled at this and said, “I’ve seen bits and parts of [the bill], Betsy, but I didn’t know that.” He hasn’t seen that bit, of course, because it doesn’t exist.

McCaughey misrepresents the content of page 425 of the bill. That section would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning counseling sessions with a health care practitioner

the intent of the provision is to have patients be provided an opportunity to discuss with their own health care professional, probably the one they have been seeing for the past many years, what their treatment wishes might be as they approach the end of life," said Keyserling, who stressed that consultations like this are treatment-neutral. Comparing this to forced euthanasia is like saying that a bill making retirement planning easier would force Americans to quit their jobs.

Incidentally, we’ve rebutted other claims by McCaughey. In February, she claimed, based on the bill’s promotion of comparative effectiveness research, that the stimulus bill would enact a health care rationing board that would deny care to seniors.

  • 27 votes
#1.1 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:37 PM EDT
forrestg

Don't worry too much about Palin. The only people who take her seriously are the small group of angry white racist who will believe anything which feeds there lust for hatred. Fortunately America is outgrowing these fanatical, resentful, hateful, confused and deluded racist.

They along with Palin, are a disgrace to our great nation. There time is coming to an end, and they are mad as HELL! Well, that's just too bad now isn't it? I hold no animosity for these people though. They are my brothers and sisters, whether they accept that or not. I will continue to pray for them, and all the rest of us. Peace to you all, always.

  • 22 votes
#1.2 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:42 PM EDT
Arlene Tognetti

Yes, their time is coming to and end...and usually that is why they are

protesting Too Much...All these far-right extreme folks are a total disgrace

to our nation and to the people who have fought hard to keep our country

civil and fair to all Americans.

Kudos and Peace ... forrestg!

  • 12 votes
#1.3 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:45 PM EDT
Carloz

Hi Teresa, thanks for telling us about your personal experience with such health care horrors. When I was a medical social worker I used to see this kind of thing happen all the time. We used to get called in to see if the people could qualify for medicaid (most didn't, of course) or if we could find a charity to help (sometimes we could, sometimes we could not -- even when we could what the charity could do was usually only minimal, not what was really needed). Sometimes there was literally nothing that could be done. It was heatbreaking. People were almost always shocked at the situation they found themselves in -- they never thought such a thing could happen, and believed their insurance would take care of everything. And I think therein lies the answer to your question:

Do people just pretend this doesn't happen or do they forget because remembering is too painful.

I suspect most of the people who are against health care reform have never found themselves in these difficult situations. They may be lucky and never have to face it (e.g. family member dies from an unexpected heart attack, instead of having multiple ones that cause him/her to hospitalized repeatedly and exhaust benefits), or they may not. It's like Russian Roulette.

P.S. I hope your mom is OK now.

  • 13 votes
#1.4 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:50 PM EDT
Honor and Harmony

All the repubs have left are lies and hopes that the uneducated believe them. The repubs ONLY card to play for the election is to try and block and ridicule everything the democrats are doing. THEY ADMIT this freely on rightwing radio and the blogs.

Why is anyone surprised at their outlandish desperation?

  • 16 votes
#1.5 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:04 PM EDT
Yosho

Let's not forget the other form these current corporate "death panels" take: the upper-level decision-makers at insurance companies and HMOs who set quotas for denying claims, the idea being that the customer will give up or die before a successful appeal or lawsuit. They keep the money you already paid whether you live ( to pay the bill yourself and maybe keep paying to hopefully avoid further financial distress in the event of another major procedure ) or die.

  • 11 votes
#1.6 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:32 PM EDT
Schroedingers Cat

And yet the Insurance Cabal is recording record profits with a margin of at times 400%!!! in this time of economic turbulence and descent. And SarahCuda is joining in the fight WITH the Insurance Cabal against you the American people using her most heinous weapon...lying Propaganda with which she feeds the idiots out there who refuse to listen to the reality of the present. The "death Panels she accuses the Obama admin. of having should reform pass are EXACTLY what the Insurance Cabal is doing now! Where is the outrage from the right wing about this? It is being DENIED and projected onto those who are innocent of such a Heinous act!

  • 4 votes
#1.7 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:45 PM EDT
teresa-498430

Hi Carloz, My mom is doing well thanks for your offer of concern.

I am not sure that people have thought about some of the facts about health care as it is today in the U.S.

In 2008 health care spending in this country reached 2.4 trillion dollars which was 17% of the GDP.

Health insurance costs have and continue to rise at an average of 9% per year. Well above the cost of living index.

In 1999 the average health insurance policy for a family cost around $5,000 today that cost has risen to over $12,000.00 and in many cases the co payments, deductible have risen and the coverage has become more restrictive.

When considering these facts I am unsure how anyone can say with a straight face that health care reform should be shut down with some deceptive method . Like the outrageous death panel and euthanasia lies.

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:24 PM EDT
Carloz

Thanks, Teresa. Since I know someone will ask sooner or later, can you provide some sources for those figures?

  • 1 vote
#1.9 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:53 PM EDT
Stop the ignorance.

I think everybody is getting a bit worked up here about nothing...

Consider this;

On Friday, August 7th Sarah Palin said:

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care," ... "Such a system is downright evil."

Then come Monday, August 10th she says:

"There are many disturbing details in the current bill that Washington is trying to rush through Congress, but we must stick to a discussion of the issues and not get sidetracked by tactics that can be accused of leading to intimidation or harassment,"

She mentions nary a word about the tactic of misleading the electorate.

Being a good follower she does listen to what some Republican strategists have been saying, (even is she doesn't follow their advice) namely, that this tact the party seems to be taking will be hard to walk back come election time in 2010. Moderate Republicans know that their best bet isn't to be seen siding with the party's extremists, always good advice. This is why Sarah is now walking back her rhetoric, she knows that claiming the government is systemically flawed and can't handle caring for citizens indicts her very motivation for becoming further involved with Federal government to start with. She wants to run for POTUS in 2012 and doesn't want this issue upsetting her apple cart, good luck. (Oh, and by the way, you can't have it both ways Sarah!)

Let's face it, Sarah Palin is a waste of time at the keyboard. Her, (what was that term she was always using during the last election cycle), Oh yeah, 'flip-flop' on her health care statements only highlights her political schizophrenia.

I'm quite sure somebody between Friday and Monday last reminded her that siding with the Freedom Works activist crowd might be a health care albatross hanging around her neck when all their fear tactics are dispelled. She probably decided to hedge her bets both ways, just to be safe.

Keep yourself relevant, even if that does mean giving opposing statements to the press in the course of a weekend. Besides, what the danger in it? Most people already know that Sarah Palin doesn't know what she believes in on any given day!

Just one more thing.... Wasn't it Sarah Palin and her followers that decried any kind of reporting about her kids, even when Sarah herself was parading them on stage before the national media?

But now she's actively incorporating her autistic child into her critique of Obama's health care proposal. Does anyone believe for a minute that she doesn't see the contradiction in this??

The one question that show's Sarah Palin's(and everyone else that mindlessly repeats the 'death panel' remark) stance on health care to be a fraud is this:

"Rhetoric aside, do you personally believe that the Federal government wants to euthanize senior citizens and disabled children?"

In your private lives, the next time you hear the 'death panel' remark, use this question on the person who makes the statement. You'll see that the quickly abandon the talking points when pinned down on this subject.

  • 3 votes
#1.10 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:33 PM EDT
teresa-498430

Hi Carloz, Okay then these are numbers I have committed to memory but I will look for links that substantiate them.

The 9% climb is slightly lower than the increases of the past two years. Medical costs to employers rose 9.2% in 2009 and 9.9% in 2008. ~~BusinessWeek http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2009/db20090618_304565.htm

The above article was from June and also has some interesting information on group insurance costs available through employers. Also increases in health care costs.

Total spending was $2.4 TRILLION in 2007, or $7900 per person1. Total health care spending represented 17 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP). U.S. health care spending is expected to increase at similar levels for the next decade reaching $4.3 TRILLION in 2017, or 20 percent of GDP.1

  • Since 1999, employment-based health insurance premiums have increased 120 percent, compared to cumulative inflation of 44 percent and cumulative wage growth of 29 percent during the same period.2

  • The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $12,700. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,700.2

    http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

    Good source of lots of data.

    Kaiser Family Foundation survey, the average annual premium for family coverage has already increased from $5,791 in 1999 to $12,680 in

    I think that is helpful in backing up the numbers with the links.;~)

    • 3 votes
    #1.11 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:15 PM EDT
    Aalaf Alot

    Insurance Companies have been using Death Panel for many many years. Here are some examples. It funny how Right Wing Nutjobs twisting stuff around. You know that Insurance Claims authorization are paid bonus for denying coverage and payouts. My sister in law worked for Aetna for year. She receive a bonus for looking for creative ways not to pay for medical service. She quit after realizing, her actions are killing people and destroying families.

    • Sorry, your surgery is experimental. We will not pay for the pay live saving surgery.
    • Sorry, you or someone should of drive yourself to the ER. The insurance company will not pay for the Ambulance. Mam, I am aware you son cut his finger off. You should have just jump in the car and drove to the hospital.
    • Sorry sir, your insurance will only pay for 3 days. Afterward, we dump you at home with a nurse that visits 1 hour a day or hospice. My father is in the ICU. Like I said, your insurance will pay for 3 days.
    • Sorry, your surgery is consider experimental. So you have to 20% of the cost of the surgery. Since it experimental, you can't pay the minimum Co-Pay.
    • Broken Arm- Sorry ma'am, you have to bring your daughter to the doctor for a Caste. We will not pay the emergency room to Caste it. Emergency room will put a temporarily brace.
    • Sorry maam, your husband has hit the $250,000 threshold. You have to come up with the difference for each additiona day.
    • Sorry Sir, you have to perform the following surgery this way only using leeches. <Note: it cheaper> We can't use the new more safer, and better surgery alternative. Did I tell you? it is experimental.

    Omg, you lied on your questionnaire. You forgot to check you had Illness A. Since you have illness B. Illness A can be link as a possibly cause of Illness B. Sorry, we will not pay for the surgery. or, we are not paying for the surgery or medical care.

    Now, at the medical office, hospital, and doctor office. Sorry, we will only pay so much for this surgery, medical procedure, medical care. Joe Doctor in Skid Row Clinic is charging $750.00 to delivery a Baby in the clinic with 3 hours stay. We are not paying $1500.00 for normal baby delivery with overnight stay. Not only insurance companies screw their customer, they screw the medical community too.

    • 5 votes
    #1.12 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:49 PM EDT
    Carloz

    I think that is helpful in backing up the numbers with the links.;~)

    I do, too, Teresa -- thanks!

    Insurance Companies have been using Death Panel for many many years. Here are some examples.

    Spot on, Aalaf Alot.

    • 3 votes
    #1.13 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:37 PM EDT
    space guy

    Interesting discussion. It looks like Teresa in 1.1 is already under the government healthcare system and that rationing is already in place. Now we have a president who claims that they won't do that and yet it is being done on a daily basis.

    Now going back to the article, it looks like the private healthcare had a 30 day stay in ICU vs the 5 days for medicare.

    This is supposed to be an argument for government healthcare?

    • 2 votes
    #1.14 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:51 PM EDT
    Reply
    Mike B-802126

    Factcheck.org back up the false statements that they made also..

    • 4 votes
    Reply#2 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:49 PM EDT
    Carloz

    That's right, Mike, and here's the link:

    False Euthanasia Claims

    The claim that the House health care bill pushes suicide is nonsense.

    • 16 votes
    #2.1 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:25 PM EDT
    space guy

    And yet Teresa in 1.1 says otherwise, based upon her experience with her family.

    Hmmmm....

    • 1 vote
    #2.2 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:51 PM EDT
    Reply
    Brian-497171

    Boy, she's a frickin idgit.

    • 16 votes
    Reply#3 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:24 PM EDT
    ScienceGuy-356641

    The problem inherent in the private health insurance industry, being controlled by bean counters rather than physicians, is that the people who most desperately need coverage are the people who are least likely to

    a) have their medical treatments be approved for coverage by their HMO, or

    b) be accepted into an insurance program.

    The government would not be running health care for the country. The goal of the public option is to provide more choice -- people can stick with a private plan or opt for the federal plan. And the CBO analysts confirmed that a public option will not drive private companies out of the marketplace.

    As for Palin, she is more interested in keeping her name in the press by spewing her typical fear-inciting hyperbole than she is in contributing any meaningful, substantive input to a serious, rational discussion on health care reform legislation.

    • 18 votes
    Reply#4 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:25 PM EDT
    Arlene Tognetti

    Carloz: Had to share this,

    From Howard Dean and Bill Maher

    I will quote Howard Dean from the other article on Newsvine:

    "About euthanasia, they're just totally erroneous. She just made that up," he said. "Just like the 'Bridge to Nowhere' that she supposedly didn't support."

    and then Bill Maher from the LA Times on Sarah Palin:

    "I say to the Birthers, I will show you Barack Obama's birth certificate, If you

    show me Sarah Palin's high school diploma."

    Howard and Bill said it all!

    Arlene in Seattle

    • 19 votes
    Reply#5 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:26 PM EDT
    Carloz

    Thanks, Arlene -- I had heard the one from Dean, but not Maher's.

    • 10 votes
    #5.1 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:52 PM EDT
    Arlene Tognetti

    Welcome....have to add humor to all this!

    good article!

    • 8 votes
    #5.2 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:13 PM EDT
    Reply
    Better Careful

    Wouldn't the least expensive and best solution be to simply put the insurance company executive on our payroll? We could make sure they have enough to pass some along to their Republican pals in Congress. A billion or two would go a long way.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#6 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:31 PM EDT
    PerS8coM4Deleted
    SuperSaiyan

    Alos, An intresting thing that I've stated on a few seeds that Palin either doesn't know or conviently omits is that the so-called "death panel" provision was put in by a republican...

    GOP Senator Undercuts Republican Claim That Dem Health Care Bill Will Cause “Government Euthanasia”

    As I’ve been noting, conservatives and Republican leaders have been running wild with the claim that the House Dems’ health care reform bill, by offering Medicare funding for “end of life consultations,” could lead to mass “government-encouraged euthanasia.”

    But it turns out a GOP Senator, Susan Collins, sponsored a virtually identical initiative this spring, before this became an anti-reform GOP talking point — and praised it as necessary to improving our health care system’s “care for patients at the end of their lives.”

    This sharply undercuts the GOP and conservative claim — unless, of course, you believe Collins backed an initiative she thinks could lead to mass government extermination of the elderly. Though this talking point has been debunked multiple times, conservatives and GOP leaders like John Boehner continue to employ it with abandon.

    On May 22nd, Senators Collins and Jay Rockefeller introduced the “Advance Planning and Compassionate Care Act,” according to a press release sent over by a source. The measure provides Medicare funding “for advance care planning so that patients can routinely talk to their physicians about their wishes for end-of-life care,” the release says.

    Collins praised the measure, which may be included in the Senate health care bill, in the release. “Our legislation will improve the way our health care system care for patients at the end of their lives,” she said, “and it will also facilitate appropriate discussions and individual autonomy in making decisions about end-of-life care.”

    Maybe someone should ask Senator Collins whether she’s concerned that Federal funding for end of life consultations could result in “government-encouraged euthanasia,” as we keep hearing. Come to think of it, maybe I’ll ask her

    http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/senate-republicans/gop-senator-undercuts-republican-claim-that-dem-health-care-bill-will-cause-government-euthanasia/

    Second, what is Gingrich talking about? We're talking about a provision in the House bill that would allow Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling sessions on advance care planning. The idea came from a Republican senator, Maine's Susan Collins, who's argued that the measure would improve Medicare's "care for patients at the end of their lives."

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_08/019417.php

    Palin has some explaining to do on that one, especially if she wants to bring it up to demonize President Obama...

    • 13 votes
    Reply#8 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:57 PM EDT
    Carloz

    that Palin either doesn't know or conviently omits is that the so-called "death panel" provision was put in by a republican.

    Oh, that is rich Super -- thanks!

    especially if she wants to bring it up to demonize President Obama...

    Why, what ever makes you think that could possibly be part of her motivation?! *sarcasm*

    • 13 votes
    #8.1 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:04 PM EDT
    Honor and Harmony

    Its funny how all the repubs forget that.

    • 11 votes
    #8.2 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:06 PM EDT
    Reply
    Sharn CedarDeleted
    Sharn CedarDeleted
    Timothy Lingard

    I believe that Palin is trying to front a death board and she will be the CEO of it. I mean, who else has a web site that is collecting donations for legal defence, unless you are expecting to have legal trouble.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#11 - Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:54 PM EDT
    fsdafds

    She's no longer a government official. May she run into a "death board" of mentally-ill Americans who can't afford psychiatric care!

    • 1 vote
    Reply#12 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:19 AM EDT
    LeftInTexas

    I heard that the senior leadership from the Army of God is applying for the new death panel positions created by Sarah Palin, and if chosen they will not discriminate against pro choice advocates appearing before the panel on private individual health-care issues, particularly when woman are involved.

    I'm thinking this whole death panel thing will end up " fair & balanced ", but, you decide...

    Think fox, be a fox!

    • 1 vote
    Reply#13 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:22 AM EDT
    GoldenGateMami_Susi

    Death Panels........I wonder if she means "Death Eaters"

    Someone's been building up her rhetoric by reading Harry Potter.

    You're an ass.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#14 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:13 AM EDT
    Sassy79

    Being from NY most of us don't even remember Betsy McCaughey..so that tells you how much she impressed us while in office.

    To clarify a point made earlier- Arlen Spector has Hodgkins disease..which is a totally different kind of cancer than brain cancer...his survival rate is much different since he has had a re-occurence. Most survival rates are based on statisitics. No one knows how well someone will respond to treatment. Some do very well, other don't.

    The point I am making is I have rarely heard of an insurance company utilize a board as discussed above..they typically look at cost and if the protocol is what they consider experimental. They are in the business to deny..since they are beholden to shareholders.

    The point the article is making is we already have people making life and death decisions based upon approval or disapproval of treatment. The system we have already does some of the things you hear the right screaming about.

    Don't want socialized medicine? What do you consider medicare/medicaid/ VA benefits?

    My bitch with Congress is why did you take negociating drug prices off the table? That answer lies in who is getting huge sums from big pharma.

    Golden gate- you assume she has READ Harry Potter.. I don't believe they have excerpted the Harry Potter series in "Seal hunting Today" or "Snowmobilin" magazines!

    • 4 votes
    Reply#15 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:52 AM EDT
    SuperSaiyan

    Being from NY most of us don't even remember Betsy McCaughey..so that tells you how much she impressed us while in office.

    Yeah, I'm also from NY and I only vaguely remember her...

    • 1 vote
    #15.1 - Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:55 PM EDT
    Reply
    billy-witchdoctor-com

    What I want to know is why my grandmother had to pay 140.00 a day for assisted living in a piece of crap place with medicaid whist the beautiful nice place that did not accept mediaid had a base rate of 85.00 per day....when the govt pays there is no accountablity and now someone thinks that this is a good idea to let the Govt run Health care... I say if Healthcare plans by the Govt are so good let the leaders who what us to" shut up and get out of the way" be the first to get on the program. Let us see that the President and his family along with all these Democrats that are voting for this choose the option that they ae forcing on you, or offer the plan that they get. It would be leadership by example not by socialism

      Reply#16 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:25 AM EDT
      Carloz

      What state are you in, billy-witchdoctor-com? Part of the problem with Medicaid is that it is not run by the federal government. It is funded by federal and state dollars, but each state manages its own medicaid program -- and some states barely add anything to the federal dollars, while other states are more generous. It is a patchwork system.

      • 8 votes
      #16.1 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:49 AM EDT
      Reply
      GiGi-767983

      Sarah Palin quit in mid-stream of her term as Gov. of Alaska because she could not get an re-election team together to support her, and the state of Alaska was very displeased with her after the 2009 Presidential Election.

      They had to practically sit on her, to keep her in the state to conduct their business. So, she was toast as far as re-election was concerned in Alaska anyway, AND SHE KNEW THIS ! Now she's tromping all over America, trying to keep some credibility.... but folks, when it comes to the Health Care Reform situation, Sarah is really out of her league, and .......

      MANY OF THESE TOWNHALL PROTESTERS ARE BEING PUT UP TO THEIR NONSENSE....

      Just a few short months ago everyone's 401k's was tanking, and people were lined up at food banks to get food to feed their families. Now things are beginning to look up a bit, and none of us are knowledgeable about the entire proposed Health Care Reform plan proposed by the Obama Admin., but going to these Townhall Meetings with the intent to disrupt and cause havoc is not the way to achieve a final solution to anything.

      I know the GOP sent people like these: (jeering, screaming and yelling) at Hillary Ciinton when she tried a few years ago, to every stop she arrived at, and that too was wrong. These people (the protesters) don't realize we are paying thru the nose for people who don't have insurance now. Have you ever been to an emergency room? Well it can cost over $1,000 for (1) visit there. An ambulance can cost over $500.00 just for a 1 mile pick up. A (30 day) supply of medication can cost well over $100.

      Insurance companies don't want health care reform either, because they will be more closely regulated, and they don't want that! And it was shown on the news last evening that some of these people are being sent in by them to disrupt the Townhall meetings.

      GET EDUCATED PEOPLE, STOP LETTING SOMEONE ELSE USE YOU !.... Health Care Reform is needed. It will give everyone a break !

      • 5 votes
      Reply#17 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:53 PM EDT
      AlphaDogReporter

      Palin showed how incredibly inept she is by spewing talking points that had ALREADY BEEN DEBUNKED.

      To paraphrase Napoleon Dynamite, Sarah, the whole Republican party looks like a friggin idiot because of you.

      • 4 votes
      Reply#18 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:22 PM EDT
      Richie Boy

      Sarah Palin is hardly the problem. The dilemma is that her remarks are given any creedence at all. She is an unaccomplished, angry, illiterate racist whose 'career' is now totally dependent upon inciting the final breath of a movement so stuck in hatred that it has ceased to think in a rational, humane fashion.

      We should be discussing the true essence of this new Health Care Bill. The suggested act is not a bad way to begin healing a very damaged and very greedy system. I guess it's simply easier to comment on the court jesters. It is much less complicated.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#19 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:48 PM EDT
      les-1100125

      you are right all the other lies about the new health bill is they don`t look anything up the bill is on line not the right side or the left but the real bill from the goverment web site

        #19.1 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:34 PM EDT
        Reply
        Nancy in WA

        There is also a problem with seniors being able to get their meds. When you and your insurance Co. have paid out $2750.00 that is all the help you get until you spend $4350.00 in prescription cost. My prescriptions would cost me $800.00 a month thanks to the drug companies So I pay for my insulin that alone is $300.00 a month. The whole system sucks. Medicare is meant to be a good program but it has been milked and will be ruined by all the insurance and drug companies. This needs to be changed, That 65th birthday get here quicker than you thnk

          Reply#20 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:08 PM EDT
          trm2008

          Drugs like insulin shouldn't cost anyone. It is outrageous that a company is making a profit from a drug like insulin that one HAS to take to live. You are right, the system needs fixing.

          • 2 votes
          #20.1 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:13 PM EDT
          Reply
          Bill K. NY

          I kinda like the idea of death panels. Why is Ted Kennedy being treated? He should be given some pills and sent home to die.

          Drugs like insulin shouldn't cost anyone. It is outrageous that a company is making a profit from a drug like insulin that one HAS to take to live.

          What makes that person so valuble that they have to live. Life is for the healthy not those who are just a burden. Yup, the system needs fixing. The health panel will solve all that. Once these costly people are removed from the health care system the cost of health care will be reduced for all of us. Oh, and those who engage in extreem sports should be triaged and not treated at all. If you can't take the pain don't play the game. Does a person really need more then $2750.00 worth of drugs a year?

            Reply#21 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:45 PM EDT
            scorpio-1251508

            Let's see.....I can barely feed my family, barely pay my bills and my mortgage, yet I should dig into my empty pockets to pay for someone else's Healthcare because they don't have any? I should work a second job so I can pay for Illegals to have health care because the thought is that everyone deserves healthcare? Well, then I guess I've been wrong all along and will need to get a third job so that I can pay for health care for everyone in the world who doesn't have any. Also, I must remember those evil Insurance Companies, like the one I have my health insurance with. I just received notice that some of the nurses, doctors, clinics and hospitals that my plan has agreements with, now are renegotiating for more money from my health plan to deliver their services. I'm told that this will again raise my rates. Hmmm.... I guess I just don't get it. Nurses, Doctors, Clinics and Hospitals raise the amount they are going to charge my Insurance company to provide me with health services which will cause my rates to go up and the Insurance Industry is the evil one here? It's awfully odd that the Nurses, Doctors, Clinics and Hospitals all support Government healthcare. We all know why this is: they know that when dealing with the Government, they will be able to raise their rates and the government will just cut back on the care you receive and raise our taxes time and time again to pay for the increases. Right now they have to negotiate with the Insurance Company and will lose the business to other's who will offer the services at the cost to save you premium money. Shame on those evil Insurance Companies and hooray for all the Nurses, Doctors, Clinics and Hospitals.

            • 1 vote
            Reply#22 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:49 PM EDT
            Nancy in WA

            How many days did Sarah actually put in as Gov. of Alaska how many of those days was she actually in the state? Alaska must be celebrating that she resigned.

            • 2 votes
            Reply#23 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:25 PM EDT
            Bill K. NY

            Hmmm.... I think the death panel needs to review Nancy's records. She appears to be confused. Must be early dementia since she doesn't seem to know what the topic is about.

              #23.1 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:08 PM EDT
              Reply
              demo scout

              What really angers me about the "death panel" lie is that it is really a pure lie. There is nothing being proposed that resembles the so-called "death panel" in any remote way. Yet supposedly responsible elected officials and ex-officials of the Republican Party are using this utterly immoral ploy to frighten people. This is not some cute labeling like calling the estate tax the "death tax." At least there is in that case a real tax to label. This one about the "death panel" is made up out of whole cloth with nothing to back it up. From Palin to Gingrich to the floors of the House and Senate supposedly honorable Republicans are knowingly lying about this to scare people away from health care reform. It is despicable and they should be called out as blatant and immoral liars. I know that politics is hardball, but it can be tough without being immoral and perverse. This win at any cost conservative mentality is very dangerous to the democracy.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#24 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:47 PM EDT
              Bill K. NY

              What really angers me about the "death panel" lie is that it is really a pure lie. There is nothing being proposed that resembles the so-called "death panel" in any remote way.

              Damn! I could really get behind that. Maybe it can be added as a rider.

                #24.1 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:40 PM EDT
                Reply
                MOJORISEN424

                Sarah Palin would not know the truth if it came up to her and bit her on the ass. The health bill is a Thousand pages plus or minus. I doubt that Sarah Palin has read that many pages in her whole life. Sarah Palin is trying to make herself out to be Knowledgeable in all aspects of living in the U.S.A. When in fact she is lacking all the credibility of a true leader. Sarah Palin is a Quitter..........plain and simple. Thus negating all she has to say.

                • 3 votes
                Reply#25 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:12 PM EDT
                Bill K. NY

                Yup, she is just like Obama.

                  #25.1 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:41 PM EDT
                  texasjaj2Deleted
                  Carloz

                  Obama didn't quit when he ran for president, he just didn't show up. He let his people down. He wasn't even there to vote present. A Senator on a 4 year campaign tour should quit and let someone represent the people.

                  And McCain did better? And Palin stayed in Alaska all those months?

                  • 2 votes
                  #25.3 - Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:36 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  Cheryl Bowie

                  Palin should know what a "Death Panel" and down right evil is, one of the attorney's she has worked with Tom Van Flein represents Medtronics, RegenTech and other companies up here in Alaska where they are defendants in the Human Tissue Scandal nationwide where they distributed and sold illegally harvest Human Tissue products from New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia and other states and additionally decided not to notify the patients who were the recipients of these contaminated and diseased body parts. So Go Palin - lets bring to light all of the unjustice in our health care industry - lets start with your team - maybe you can sit down with VanFlein and let him know how you think patients should be treated! Amen Sista U Betcha! (See MDL 1763, US District Courts of New Jersey, Florida) and most importantly the 3rd Circuit Court is hearing their argument on 8/18/09 on why they shouldn't tell us the information about their investigation of BTS and what was really put into our bodies....

                  www.adn.com
                  Source: www.adn.com
                  Palin says Obama's health plan is 'downright evil'

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#26 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:47 PM EDT
                  Carloz

                  Thanks for the info from Alaska, Cheryl!

                  • 2 votes
                  #26.1 - Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:18 PM EDT
                  texasjaj2Deleted
                  texasjaj2Deleted
                  SuperSaiyan

                  There are so many jealous women in this country that should be proud to see a woman make it so far.

                  texastaj2,

                  I highly doubt that Cheryl or any other woman is "jealous" of Palin.

                  She is highly intelligent and shrewd.

                  She has yet to show it, especially after the "death panel" statement which, in fact there isn't any and whose idea came from a republican senator. As I stated in an earlier post, she either doesn't know or conviently omitted this fact.

                  She is getting more coverage than Obama because she is so well liked.... She is very popular throughout the world

                  You do know that her populariry rating had gone down, correct?

                  Sarah Palin's surprise resignation and uneven performance since has done her no favors in the popularity department.

                  Findings released today from a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey found that 39 percent of Americans view Palin favorably, while 48 percent view her unfavorably.

                  That's a noticeable drop from 46 percent favorable-43 percent unfavorable numbers she received in mid-May.

                  http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/08/palins_populari_1.html

                  And as to your previous post why Palin left the Alaskian Governorship and that it's the fault of "liberals", then why not even a month ago then an independent investigator state that Palin did break ethics rules?...

                  An independent investigator has found evidence that Gov. Sarah Palin may have violated ethics laws by accepting private donations to pay her legal debts, in the latest legal distraction for the former vice presidential candidate as she prepares to leave office this week.

                  The report obtained by The Associated Press says Palin is securing unwarranted benefits and receiving improper gifts through the Alaska Fund Trust, set up by supporters.

                  An investigator for the state Personnel Board says in his July 14 report that there is probable cause to believe Palin used or attempted to use her official position for personal gain because she authorized the creation of the trust as the "official" legal defense fund.

                  The practical effect of the ruling on Palin will be more financial than anything else. The report recommends that Palin refuse to accept payment from the defense fund, and that the complaint be resolved without a formal hearing before the Alaska Personnel Board.

                  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/21/politics/main5178173.shtml

                  • 2 votes
                  #26.4 - Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:46 PM EDT
                  texasjaj2Deleted
                  Carloz

                  Hogwash!

                  Sounds like someone went to the Sarah Palin School of Debate and Articulation.

                  • 2 votes
                  #26.6 - Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:10 PM EDT
                  texasjaj2Deleted
                  Reply
                  Carloz

                  Looks like the GOP Senator from Alaska is talking about "Death Panels" too:

                  GOP Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska doesn't like Palin's 'death panel' lies - "I'm so offended at that terminology"

                  "There is no reason to gin up fear in the American public by saying things that are not included in the bill."

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#27 - Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:09 PM EDT
                  texasjaj2Deleted
                  Carloz

                  Palin beat Murkowski's dad in the primaries for the governorship off Alaska.

                  ZOMG! I never dreamed she was related to former Governor Frank Murkowski! But, gee, they do have the same last name. Oh, and that must make her a liar, too -- I mean in addition to Palin.

                  Since you say Palin "taught" you, I understand your comments much better now.

                  • 2 votes
                  #27.2 - Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:49 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  MOJORISEN424

                  Obama didn't quit when he ran for president, he just didn't show up. He let his people down. He wasn't even there to vote present. A Senator on a 4 year campaign tour should quit and let someone represent the people.

                  This is typical rhetoric from the type of people that support Sarah Palin. The charges against Sarah Palin cost the citizens of Alaska Millions of dollars. Had Sarah Palin not placed herself in the position of giving the appearance of an impropriety, she would not have had to defend herself in court. And Sarah Palins' days in court are not completely over and only time will tell.

                  The G.O.P and the like, want to blame President Obama for all the countries current economic problems and woe. Though President Obama has been on the job since January 2009. The G.O.P. would have you believe, that they just now found out about the state of the union. Sarah Palin supporters regurgitate each others rhetoric, swish it around in their heads and salivate at the chance to share their limited and dogmatic thoughts. This is the gist of a typical Sarah Palin supporter.

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#28 - Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:51 PM EDT
                  Leave a Comment:
                  You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                  You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                  (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                  Newsvine Privacy Statement
                  As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                  FUN STUFF:
                  • Leaderboard |
                  • E-Mail Alerts |
                  • Top of the Vine |
                  • Newsvine Live |
                  • Newsvine Archives |
                  • The Greenhouse |
                  COMPANY STUFF:
                  • Code of Honor |
                  • Company Info |
                  • Contact Us |
                  • Jobs |
                  • User Agreement |
                  • Privacy Policy |
                  • About our ads
                  LEGAL STUFF:
                  • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                  • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                  • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com