POLL: Should the USA introduce a National ID Card?

Carloz

There are alien registration cards for non citizen residents.

Some aliens are lucky to have permanent cards.

Citizens have passports.

Other residents temporarily in the country have visas.

Anyone else is pretty much illegal, but maybe I forgot a LEGAL category above in my analysis.

Karen, you did. I was born here and have lived here for all of my permanent citizen life, I have never left the country so I don't need a passport. But I continually have to prove it. I am legal.

Opinion8ed

Wow. Thanks. I never thought of that because I have travelled all over and have always had a passport.

Nonetheless, I think the passport/birth certificate should be the national ID card. I HATE the concept of big brother as with a national ID card.

I KNOW you have a birth certificate opinion8ed and for the record, children under the age of 18 can travel to Canada (and presumably other foreign countries) with the birth certificate.

The birth certificate proves you were born in the U.S. and thus are a citizen.

If you were not born in the U.S., then you need a legal means of being here (ie, alien registration card or visa or certificate of foreign birth to American citizen parents).

We definitely DO NOT need the government paying attention to us any more than they are now with Bush's warrantless wire taps, etc. which I think are still going on.

National ID cards are a total waste of time and money.

National ID cards are a total waste of time and money.

Ditto, ditto. Another method to keep track of law abiding Americans who exercise their Constitutional Rights and liberties. If the Feds wish to keep track of illegal immigration and bring it to an end as it is an albatross around our nations education and healthcare systems, they should enforce the existing laws relating to illegal immigration as a federal mandate. This is afterall the primary duty of the POTUS, that is to protect America's borders and defend it's citizens. Government has become so backwards that it's hard to determine whether we will ever find our way back to sensible, logical standards.

Karen in Los Angeles:

"I KNOW you have a birth certificate opinion8ed and for the record, children under the age of 18 can travel to Canada (and presumably other foreign countries) with the birth certificate."

As of June 1st, '09, you need a passport to visit Canada , unless from Wash. There's an "Enhanced" DL if you live in Wash. Otherwise, it's a passport.

A side note: G.W. Bush and Clinton were in Toronto, kind of a "town meeting" thing. They both claimed they were not aware of this new law requiring a passport, and said they'd see what they could do about it. Since this was part of the Patriot Act, probably nothing.

A National ID card? Is that "American"? Big Brother has made some strong advances in the last decade. Why not just install a chip in everyone and get it over with?! Then "HAL" can run everything. I've got to agree with Tom,(above), on this one.

Yup "Hal"....wonder how many on here knows 'who' Hal is?

corruption

You are wrong.

I called Senator Hillebrand's office near the border of Niagara Falls NY and Canada.

I will be bringing my 7 year old niece to African Safari in Canada. Per border patrol and the state department, children under the age of 18 can travel to Canada with a birth certificate.

I also need a notarized letter from her parents allowing me to bring her to Canada.

Check your facts. YOU ARE WRONG in this case.

I will need my passport, but I have one. Honestly, I also have a certificate of foreign birth because both my parents are Canadian but I decided to be American - only American.

Google border patrol and the U.S. Department of State.

There's an "Enhanced" DL if you live in Wash.

Do you think Washington state is the only state that borders Canada? FYI - there are more than one and I believe this Enhanced Drivers License is available to ALL citizens of border states, not just WA state.

I know that it is available in NY.

Since it costs almost as much as a passport, I say get a passport.

Karen in Los Angeles, sorry but you might want to check with the Canadian border officials. having just driven thru Canada with small children I can say that they did indeed need to have passports. the reason that i say check with Canadian officials is because a couple of years ago i was going to Alaska via car and wanted to carry my handgun. every official I talked to in the US told me I had to pay $50 and fill out a form and that it would be ok. after paying the money and filling out the form correctly my handgun was still confiscated at the border.

frosty

I have dual citizenship. My family has been going to Canada at least 3 - 4 times a year since I was born. I'm almost 50.

YOU WANTED TO BRING A GUN TO CANADA. THAT IS WHY YOU WERE DENIED ENTRY. I THINK GUNS ARE ILLEGAL IN CANADA.

YOU ARE WRONG about children under 18. All we need is a NOTARIZED letter from her parents and her birth certificate. Before 6/1/09, the letter did not need to be notarized and I have brought my niece to Canada every year since she was 2.

You also insinuated that the Canadian border guards give problems.

If you are talking about the American-Canadian border near Niagara Falls and western New York, THE AMERICAN BORDER GUARDS ARE NASTY.

I wasn't denied entry for bringing the gun i was just pointing out that if you want to find out the policy you need to contact the Canadians otherwise you'll get inaccurate information. I'm not insinsating that the Canadian border gards give problem, infact I've never had either side be rude or nasty in any way. whole you are correct that before june 1 09 you didn't need a passport for children you do now all of my children had to have a passport before comming thru canada 2wks ago.

Karen in Los Angeles:

Bottom line: As of June 1, 2009, everyone from every country arriving in Canada by air, land and sea has needed a passport or equivalent travel document. (Some exceptions apply to children's passport requirements). Besides an up-to-date passport, visitors may instead have an equivalent travel document, such as a NEXUS Card.

Karen: The requirement may have been extended. I'm not aware of this though. I'm trying to get clarification from Officials on this new law, as I hold dual citizenship and have family that plan to visit once my move is complete.

I hope you are correct. ;^)

Karen:

You may want to check This out. I didn't say Wash. was the only state with enhanced DLs, it just happens to be the one I live in. I'm sure all border states have them. There may be a way for minors to cross without a passport, but if you plan to accompany them, you'd better have one.

Would this be a better way for certain information to cross state lines? States are notoriously stingy when it comes to sharing information such as driving records.

That is one of the main reasons for a national ID card -- a national database, instead of multiple ones.

Government agencies can already cross-reference the myriad identification systems we have. I'd rather not make it easy for the amateurs to do the same.

I go back and forth over this isssue to be honest. Something in me revolts at the idea of having an idea of an identification card. I suspect it goes back to hearing about 1984, how it has been used in the past by some, even my own Christian heritage.

That said the fact of the matter is we use a lot of de facto identification cards. Drivers license, passports, birth certificates, social security cards, etc, etc. Given that these are all government issued and tracked, why shouldn't we have one standardized national ID card.

The truth is we need ways in which we can identify one another. We don't live in small town USA where everyone knows your name and that is a problem.

Which is the one reason I have against a national id card. I'm not convinced that they create one that is sufficiently difficult to duplicate. The fact is if we have one I fear it will become the ID and if something goes wrong, or someone steals it from then it become very difficult to take your life back. It is already bad enough today, but I suspect with a national ID it could be much worse.

Government agencies can already cross-reference the myriad identification systems we have. I'd rather not make it easy for the amateurs to do the same.

Truthfully? Amatuers probably do a better job that the government. Honestly, I can think of 2 or 3 services off of the top of my head that for a nominal fee can tell more about your life than you might think possible.

Why make it easier? Having one key fit all your locks is more convenient, but hardly safer.

What is difficult? I have to go to two or three different websites?

If designed right a national id card could actually make it more difficult to get information without your permission to do so. We have the tech to do this. I admit I don't necessarily have the faith that they would design the card right but it can done in that makes it very difficult to duplicate.

How's having a card an intrusion?

I voted not sure, I've never really seen the cons of it, because there are state ID cards that people don't complain about, but apparently it will allow the government to track us all or something.

How's having a card an intrusion?

If this actually needs to be explained then somebody wasn't paying attention in history class.

A National ID card means a National database with a record of every person in the U.S. A national database means's database fields that need to be filed and analyzed. I mean why else give someone a tracking number if your not going to track and analyze the data. It will all start out harmless enough

Then there will be another disaster or something that the government can manipulate into scare the people into passing knee jerk reaction laws.

That's when the fun starts because then comes check points to track your every movement. It's not like there are going to be road blocks with military personal armed with ak47's Demanding "show me your papers"

No not at all, It will be much more subtle. So subtle in fact that you won't even know they are tracking you because the card will be using RFID technology. They will have readers on every light post tracking your every movement.

Then they will link your national database with all your existing cards so they can start tracking where you shop, what you eat, where you go, how much you drink .......

Now all that information will then be automatically and continually analyze. Computer programs will search for key behavioral patterns. Then comes preventive detention and micro chipping. It won't be long before the government knows exactly how often you S!tt and have sex. By the time it's all said and done the government will know more about you then you know about yourself.

Just think when we get national health care they can use the system to analyze risk. Since they will already be tracking your every movement they can determine your health risk. I can see it now

You call to order a pizza and the person on the other end tells you Opps, sorry Mr. Smith according to your national record you have been placed in the high risk category and tagged as having a high risk diet.

Sorry we can't sell you this Pizza without a $50 surcharge to help cover the added expense to the taxpayers for your unhealthy habits. But I can offer you a 10 percent discount if you order carrot sticks with your order. Oh and Mr. smith for future reference you can avoid this 50 dollar surcharge if you start using your gym membership at least 3 times a week instead of the once a month that you have been going. Oh and by the way congratulations I see your wife's pregnancy test came back positive, Opps I see you had a vasectomy 4 years ago sorry! Isn't it wonderful how the the Government knows everything you do.

wow.... i carry RF ID card all the time lol, but they don't have that much frequency to be tracked from a traffic light even if you are out of your car walking ( u need to get it at least 2 inches to a reader for it to work). Also showing my ID card gets me out of a lot of trouble, when a cop stops me 'cause they are looking for someone, all i have to do is show my card and all the info is there, blood type in case of an emergency, types of medical conditions,any allergies, where i work, emergency numbers, etc, etc. I will never, however, have an RF ID chip implanted, just no way no how. But knowing our government and how they sometimes love to make things cheaply done i doubt we will have RF ID cards and readers at waist height every 1 or 2 blocks in every town ( come on who wouldn't steal and vandalize them?) plus knowing how a lot of people think that the government is watching them i doubt that will pass... BUT i do think its a good idea to have a national ID card. since everyone is in the system it would help solve cases faster, since you have a fingerprint of everyone in the US. but hey i only have an RF ID card cause of the place i have to work in...other than that i really wouldn't have cared much about them before, but now that i have one if I'm ever in trouble BAM my ID card is there and all the info is on it. its one of those dammed if you do dammed if you don't kinda things especially here in the US where everyone loves their freedom and many people love to come here to have the freedom that we do.

plus knowing how a lot of people think that the government is watching them i doubt that will pass...

Oh it will pass, And it will pass very easily! They will simply sell it as a way of tracking child predators and suspected terrorists.

Yup just like a salesmen they got to get their foot in the door and the best seller is fear. fear of the unknown, the unstoppable invisible monster that's out to get you.

You know all those supposed terrorists with Macgyver super skills along with all those cunning and vicious Hannibal Lecter perverts just waiting to abduct and molest your kids . Yup we need to take drastic measures to protect society from these monsters .

i wouldnt mind them starting with people in prison first start with some who are going out on parole kinda like a starting test... then slowly but surley just keep going... but hey you never know... lol didnt i hear somehwere the world was gonna end in 2012? if it does happen (which i doubt<and if it does oh well lol>) none of this will really matter =]

If this actually needs to be explained then somebody wasn't paying attention in history class.

No need to be snarky.

Government officials can abuse every damn bit of personal information collected about you, and a select few have. I'd rather keep the system piecemeal so one bad actor can't get to everything easily. I want the criminal to have to leave a trail.

In a very real sense, I oppose a national ID card for national security reasons.

If this actually needs to be explained then somebody wasn't paying attention in history class.

A National ID card means a National database with a record of every person in the U.S. A national database means's database fields that need to be filed and analyzed. I mean why else give someone a tracking number if your not going to track and analyze the data. It will all start out harmless enough

Then there will be another disaster or something that the government can manipulate into scare the people into passing knee jerk reaction laws.

That's when the fun starts because then comes check points to track your every movement. It's not like there are going to be road blocks with military personal armed with ak47's Demanding "show me your papers"

No not at all, It will be much more subtle. So subtle in fact that you won't even know they are tracking you because the card will be using RFID technology. They will have readers on every light post tracking your every movement.

Then they will link your national database with all your existing cards so they can start tracking where you shop, what you eat, where you go, how much you drink .......

Now all that information will then be automatically and continually analyze. Computer programs will search for key behavioral patterns. Then comes preventive detention and micro chipping. It won't be long before the government knows exactly how often you S!tt and have sex. By the time it's all said and done the government will know more about you then you know about yourself.

Just think when we get national health care they can use the system to analyze risk. Since they will already be tracking your every movement they can determine your health risk. I can see it now

You call to order a pizza and the person on the other end tells you Opps, sorry Mr. Smith according to your national record you have been placed in the high risk category and tagged as having a high risk diet.

Sorry we can't sell you this Pizza without a $50 surcharge to help cover the added expense to the taxpayers for your unhealthy habits. But I can offer you a 10 percent discount if you order carrot sticks with your order. Oh and Mr. smith for future reference you can avoid this 50 dollar surcharge if you start using your gym membership at least 3 times a week instead of the once a month that you have been going. Oh and by the way congratulations I see your wife's pregnancy test came back positive, Opps I see you had a vasectomy 4 years ago sorry! Isn't it wonderful how the the Government knows everything you do.

You state this as if somehow this isn't the case today.

blaze1024, posts 4.3 & 4.5 Very well said. The more information the Fed has about you the more harm they can do to you when they want to.

I'm not sure if I follow? I'm saying those who wish to become US citizens would have a slightly different card with their original country of birth. I guess I have no particular reason other than to differentiate between a natural born and a citizen who is not born here. Maybe a sense of pride thing which I think could swing both ways. Those who may want to become a US citizen but still have pride on where they came from and their heritage. Possibly a vote on this one, as this is negotionable. :-)

i think i understand you carloz, lol i had the same problem in Colombia when i lived there and studied... it bothered me for a while but there was a slight advantage to it after a while ( but a huge disadvantage too at the time).

Maybe this would stop false identification or identify theft that illegals are so fond of or at least make it harder.

I think it would simplify identity theft a great deal.

Buckeye ... you think it would make identity theft easier? If the picture is updated as a person's features change such as at the ages I mentioned above, my thinking is it would be harder for someone to steal it. Maybe we could add our fingerprints from birth to retirement for even better security and identification?

Carloz, I don't understand why you would have to show identification at a dept store. But, then again, I've never lived abroad.

From my years of retail experience, there is a certain amount of taboo about asking for an ID for a credit card in America. People look at you strangely and are offended when you ask, especially when there is no signature on the back of the card, and that happens more often then not. Though with checks its expected, which never made a bit of sense to me what so ever, if you have to do it for one form of payment other then cash you should do it for all forms of payment.

Buckeye ... you think it would make identity theft easier? If the picture is updated as a person's features change such as at the ages I mentioned above, my thinking is it would be harder for someone to steal it. Maybe we could add our fingerprints from birth to retirement for even better security and identification?

Steal it. Change the picture. I'm you.

Better yet steal it, report it lost, get a new one made up with my photo et al and I'm really you.

In truth, any ID can be counterfeit. Let's not make it easier by having one key for all our locks.

Buckeye ... not one key. But another more identifiable one. If issued at the time of birth it would be part of your birth certificate identification. Up until the age of five it could have your name, finger and foot prints, place of birth, and government seal. At age five or when starting school, you would be required to update it and would need to bring along your original birth certificate for proof to add say the last four numbers of your social security number (just thinking here). If your child were to attend preschool or a daycare perhaps you would be required to update it then also. To renew it, or replace it you again would have to show proof of birth as a citizen in the paper form, maybe your social security card also; but everything up until you renew or replace would be in a database. Whether a natural born citizen or a foreign born citizen, your card would be incrypted, with information from the original birth certificate and hospital and your finger prints will be taken (again) to match the database to issue a new card. Thereby, in my opinion, making it harder for it to be stolen or a counterfeit used.

Carloz, you are correct but here you can show your driver's license. No need to show proof of citizenship to use a credit card nor should we need to come to that IMHO.

But you're not required to carry it on you at all times, so I don't think it's the same thing. A national ID would require you to have it on you at all times.

Oh great. I have enough trouble keeping track of my driver's license without keeping track of another doggone card.

that would be a good idea...an all in one card

A national ID would require you to have it on you at all times.

That's an unworkable requirement.

that would be a good idea...an all in one card

I'd only have to steal that one card and I'm you.

actually the National ID card would replace all other forms of ID such as drivers licences since all you information will be downloaded into the smart chip that it will come with. It is a very bad and dangerous idea in a country as free as this one is.

well you its easy to steal the card.....its not easy getting the info. now it is cause well its everywhere but i dont think u can get my RF info from the card i have now...if you do Bravo and that will just make my company work harder to trak people like that down....and anyway...i had a card like that in colombia...one word and the info was ousted and i got a new card, it was actually very simple, not the doom and gloom that some people make it seem. but hey i know some people do not like the idea and thats thier own choice. i like the idea but if majority rules, well this is a democracy.

we just strive to make it better and more secure...

i still say it would definitely be awsome to start something like that at a corrections facility. imagine everyone that goes on parole not having to be annoyed here and there because someone "thinks" they look like a suspect, "look heres my card info finger prints and everything, it wasnt me" and prove them selves innocent. it can give them 1: a good chance to go back into the world and try to be better people and 2: if they did do something, they get caught faster. If u think of it...many convicts never get a second chance and those that do always have thier past behind them, something like this can show people...yea i did that but i have changed......as a security stand point i find it a good idea

There are many differing methods how state IDs are created , some of which are much easier to counterfeit than others. While perhaps federal IDs aren't necessary, perhaps some better standards to prevent fraud is necessary.

The biggest issue I see with federal IDs is the same with military IDs - without an identification number , they lose their effectiveness. However if you put the SSN s on cards (like are on the military IDs ) then anyone you present that card to can see your SSN. That's the problem we have now with Mil. IDs - identity theft.

Yupster. That's the rub, ain't it? If our Fearless Leaders decide we all just need a Nat ID to be all peachy keen and controlled it is my guess that it will contain RFID tech. Not that you couldn't run it through the microwave and fry it out....still.....

They were all yappin about RFID in drivers licenses awhile back. Thankfully that has not come to pass. I hope to tell you, if it comes down to a like scenario I'll go underground again....screw em.

Wha daur meddle wi me

Tex,

For S&G I took my old 'lost' ID with the smart chip and tried to microwave the smart chip into non-existance. It doesn't work. The card delaminated, but the smart chip still worked.

Sgt C USMC:

Well, that is certainly depressing. What about stickin it between two pieces of steel and taking a hammer to it?

I reckon there will be a few others like unto me that head back to the fringes if a chip ID is forced upon us. Dang. I'm getting too old for this shyte.

Best atcha

Tex...If they are going to 'fine' anyone that doesn't answer EVERY of the 28 questions on the census, up to $5,000., can you imagine what the fine would be for smashing your tracking chip? Not a happy thought!

Luckily I have not had to deal with any census folk. I think mebbe Big Dawg keeps em at a bay. Nothing in the mail so I guess I'm safe.

Yeah, I expect woe to live on if they ever do decide to chip our licenses, buttocks and what not. My cunning plan, if that comes to pass, is to just ignore it all and see what shakes out. I imagine I will not be alone, at least in the deep south and high west.

Char togar m'fhearg gun dioladh

JayB, I still can't get my head around that fine idea for not filling out the 28 page census suppliment. according to the Constitution the only information they are suppose to get for the census is the number of people living in the house and thats all. guess I'd better get my money ready.

Oh and Tex-988483 from what i hear it won't be mailed out until early 2010

Ahhhh, no wonder I have not heard news on a consensous on the census. I've never even seen one of those suckers and I've been manging around on this ball o dirt for some time....Mebbe they'll miss me again.

Here's one hipbilly that can find no argument to yer thesis.....

I'm in total agreement with you random. I bet along with the National ID Card would come a ID Card Czar and a whole new division of the Federal Government to oversee the implementation of the the cards and enforcement or carrying those cards, sort of like a Gestapo.

If I can be Card Czar, than I'm all for it. Sounds like an easy job.

Heck, call me old fashioned but i can't find the constitutinal authority for these Czars anyway. they only answer to the Excutive branch so there is no oversite by the Legislative at all for anything they do.

Bar Codes don't read well when stretched out or wrinkled. :)

please lilorphant, don't give them any more ideas.

a tattoo? oh yeah Germany tried that one only they put it on the underarm. it seemed to work out pretty good for the Govt if not for the tattooed.

". You aren't complaining about driver's licenses and they serve the exact same purpose this would."

Oh, then these national IDs are redundant. Therefore, useless.

It would start here....renewel time they "decide" there should be an 'added-feature' to the card....this is how it all creeps up on us. And it does creep....they started keeping track of your savings acct. interest in the real early 60's....so a person with more than $i0-20 would have to declare this as 'income'.....yup, it starts SLOW but....there's usually always a method to the madness.

Don't worry. Most sheeple will embrace the national ID cards once the government begins its 9/11 propaganda line...."It's to keep you saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaafe". Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

But ID cards are the line in the sand.......nevermind the fact a drivers licence is about the same thing

Those other IDs have a particular purpose. Rolling them all into some Super ID only has the purpose to make tracking you easier. I don't want to make things easier, for the government or for criminals (or for criminals in government).

Feel free, my friend.

Although some of us really are there to help you.

I really don't think I want the government knowing everything I insure, own, eat, read, wear, get prescribed, or enjoy. Being a "nation of laws" and prone to law everything to death who knows what will be made illegal next and to what extent they will penalize one in order to "protect one from oneself". Retroactively.

Thanks but no thanx.

I agree 100

I agree 100% with you! But they are pretty close to knowing just about all of that already. There is a card for everything now even the food you buy at the grocery store, it is sad.

Just an ineresting tid bit. My brother in law just came from germany for a visit, he says that they are trying to implement the national id card all over europe and leaders of many countries have been coming together and discussing this including our President Obama.

I understand, however I am not completely discrediting what he had to say about it. It's something to chew on.

Carloz...I don't remember how I worded part of my earlier post that offended you. Didn't mean to; but was just stating that I could tell you did not live in the USA. You do state this in #16.5..... OOps! off subject.

You're right there.

Here in Spain the social security number is not the same as your ID number, and it is not on your ID card. You never need to show an SS card here, you just have to give the number on documents related to social security.

Carloz, with all due respect....keep the national idea card system in Spain. Our government intrudes in our lives too much already.

<sarcasm follows> how about just tatooing a barcode on your forehead?

NO NO NO NATIONAL ID

Al...(cons)You are absolutely right!!

And what about Soc. HC what a fiasco someone could make of THAT!

And the Pros.....Yes they could track the "bad" guys, but how about them tracking YOU & ME? I personally think it could easily go beyond Socialism.

Today, privacy is already a mere illusion.

Privacy has always been an illusion. The only difference between yesterday and today is now information can spread faster and farther.

If you want privacy, buy a plot of land and build a soundproof opaque box around yourself, then and only then you have privacy.

It will be a sad day in the UK when they boot the Labour Party